overpriced vw's.

I don't think they're overrated at all. But what James says is true. But if you got the money, who gives a fuck?

I like what Audi is doing, there's just something missing. They have high-output motors all the way up and down their model range, and there's often more than one such engine available per model (see GTi, Eos, A4, A6, etc)...but they just don't drive the way they should.

They also have hands-down the best exterior and interior design/styling, so you have to give that to them.

I used to despise VW/Audi cars but I have grown to respect them. Still, though, in nearly every automotive category I'd choose a Honda/Acura or a BMW over a VAG product, unless it was one of those categories they occupy alone (upcoming TT shooting brake, for example).

nobody with good sense would buy a luxury car that was originally built by a non-luxury manufacturer. its about buying prestige, and there is nothing prestigious about a glorified vw with slightly nicer interior plastic. same goes for lexus/toyota, infinity/nissan, acura/honda and the rest. if i i want luxury and prestige, i buy bmw, mercedes, etc. cars that were built to drive and feel like luxury cars from the ground up.

Were you not contemplating the purchase of an Infiniti FX50 here, James?

yeah. didn't do it.

Wow, I just typed such a long reply to this and my browser froze. I'm so steamed...

I agree with most of your argument here, and that's the main justification I use for not buying VW/AG stuff. But "prestige" isn't what it used to be, with all the corporate ownership that is commonplace now. BMW is still independent, but everything else is either a global conglomerate or owned by one. Also, the build quality and reliability of BMW and M-B's cars is in the tank now, compared to what it used to be. They've discarded that for flash and options lists, and that's where other manufacturers (even Koreans, FFS) can now match them.

Also, a lot of "prestige" is earned on the track. BMW, Porsche, M-B, Ferrari won a lot of their iconic status in competition, in days when a marque's racing efforts were indicative of, and crucial to the quality of its road cars. And by that measure, "lesser" marques such as Ford, Honda/Acura, Subaru, and Audi - with its Le Mans sucess and the Quattro revolution - have earned some of that sporting cachet as well.

I would say that "prestige" is the sum total of the commitment a marque makes - and has made over time - to its customers and to its product. So to me, M-B's conscious decision to keep a steady stream of OEM parts available to some very old cars gets my admiration.

Likewise, Honda's dedication to building the perfectly balanced car ups that brand's prestige, as does its brutal dominance of F1 in the 90's and having Ayrton Senna develop the NSX, which revolutionized engine technology from the top of Honda's model lineup to the very bottom (not the other way 'round, as VW does it).

Jag, Bentley, Rolls, Lamborghini, Bugatti, and more are all owned by huge companies that make some very cheap stuff.

Also, I think that Lexus' LS has a lot of prestige. In 1989, Toyota spent $1 billion USD on the development of a car to challenge the S-Class with. An LS of any model year is dead reliable, and will run for hundreds of thousands of miles, like one of the old German sleds would. Having driven both I can tell you that the LS is very close to the S-Class in some areas and is superior in others. That is prestige IMO

that's hottt

i like driving a Lexus LS 430 more than any Mercedes. its sooo smooth.

but i will not be able to drive my brothers GS 400 again as i ran over a rock and scratched it.

on my lust list:

diamond encrusted double plated name plate.

ey but if I was rollin' in that A5 I would look like a BAMF dough

Speaking of Audis, I saw a red R8 (first one I've ever seen) drive by me on the way out from class today. In Iowa City no less, wtf!

Iowa City is weird though... I've seen several of the more expensive cars driving around in these parts over the past couple years that I would definitely never expect to see here (BMW M6, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Audi R8.).

R8 looks cool, but I have heard the same thing about it that is leveled at all Audis - that there's just something missing. Which is, essentially, what James and I are saying: that engineering a luxury car out of economy-car DNA doesn't yield stellar results. Which is a shame, because on paper, Audi's cars look better than anyone else's.

My lexus was my favorite car EVER until I crashed it a few months back. I believe it even saved my life!

Very smooth ride and beautiful inside and out!